Sep 02 15:01:22 <nirik>	hey. Who all is here for the Xfce meeting? 
Sep 02 15:01:33 *	nirik sees cwickert, but no mether. ;( 
Sep 02 15:02:30 <nirik>	cwickert: shall we go ahead? or try and wait for mether? 
Sep 02 15:02:58 <cwickert>	nirik: looks like mether is not around, so we should start without him
Sep 02 15:03:07 <nirik>	ok
Sep 02 15:03:12 ---	nirik has changed the topic to: Xfce SIG meeting
Sep 02 15:03:18 <nirik>	where shall we start? 
Sep 02 15:04:02 <nirik>	menus?
Sep 02 15:04:07 <nirik>	open bugs?
Sep 02 15:04:41 <cwickert>	I think we have discussed most points recently, but nevertheless...
Sep 02 15:04:49 <cwickert>	lets start with open bugs
Sep 02 15:04:59 <nirik>	ok
Sep 02 15:05:26 <nirik>	oh, did you see bug 459853 ?
Sep 02 15:05:28 <buggbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=459853 high, medium, ---, kevin@tummy.com, ASSIGNED, orage fails to do anything
Sep 02 15:05:56 <cwickert>	not yet, wait a moment
Sep 02 15:05:59 <nirik>	need to investigate that more and try and track it down. Feel free to join in if you have ideas on it. 
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Sep 02 15:08:21 <cwickert>	no ideas. didnÄt we already have a bug with orage not showing up? but this was due to mcs-manager not running, right?
Sep 02 15:08:49 <nirik>	yeah, it doesn't work unless mcs-manager is running... 
Sep 02 15:08:57 <nirik>	but the reporter claims it is... 
Sep 02 15:09:07 <nirik>	anyhow, will investigate more. 
Sep 02 15:09:19 <nirik>	next on bug 457740 
Sep 02 15:09:21 <buggbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=457740 medium, medium, ---, kevin@tummy.com, ASSIGNED, xfce does not respect xdg user directory paths
Sep 02 15:09:21 <cwickert>	for me orage works fine, I can't reproduce this
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Sep 02 15:09:48 <cwickert>	places and xfdesktop are already updated
Sep 02 15:10:03 <nirik>	ok, so Thunar is pending?
Sep 02 15:10:46 <cwickert>	I have not yet build it because I want to talk about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450784 before
Sep 02 15:10:47 <buggbot>	Bug 450784: low, low, ---, kevin@tummy.com, NEW, RFE: Enhance Thunar's 'Send to' menu
Sep 02 15:10:57 <cwickert>	opinions?
Sep 02 15:11:17 *	nirik looks again
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Sep 02 15:13:04 <nirik>	right. I see his point, but there isn't any easy way to do it not in thunar right now. 
Sep 02 15:13:12 <nirik>	and if a better way comes along we can undo the changes in thunar. 
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Sep 02 15:13:41 <nirik>	I say we add those (minus the xfprint one) 
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Sep 02 15:14:35 <cwickert>	ok then, shall I go ahead?
Sep 02 15:14:53 <nirik>	yeah, as far as I am concerened. 
Sep 02 15:14:57 <cwickert>	do you want me to dreate a patch or do we want to keep the files in cvs
Sep 02 15:15:07 <nirik>	we shouldn't do xfprint tho. It's not something we should encourage. 
Sep 02 15:15:23 <nirik>	either way... I think a patch is probibly better. 
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Sep 02 15:17:03 <cwickert>	The files should not change that often so a patch is fine. I will do one for everything except xfprint
Sep 02 15:17:22 <nirik>	excellent. 
Sep 02 15:17:52 <cwickert>	now we still have this icon problem, it's not thunar specific but also affects xfdesktop
Sep 02 15:18:16 <nirik>	ok, which icon problem? what icons to use for the menu items?
Sep 02 15:18:37 <cwickert>	depending on the icon theme some icons are not shown because the names in Rodent and gnome/fedora don't match
Sep 02 15:19:10 <nirik>	is that just for other locales? or en_US as well? 
Sep 02 15:19:18 <cwickert>	for all locales
Sep 02 15:20:23 <nirik>	ok, so what do we do? try and change icons as best we can? or ?
Sep 02 15:20:24 <cwickert>	look at /usr/share/Thunar/sendto/thunar-sendto-email.desktop for example
Sep 02 15:20:49 <cwickert>	the best we can I think, so I changed most icons to a common namespace
Sep 02 15:21:09 <nirik>	I only see that icon in oxygen-icon-theme-4.1.0-1.fc9.noarch. ;( 
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Sep 02 15:21:34 <cwickert>	yeah, that really is a bug because it's not in Rodent ether
Sep 02 15:21:56 <cwickert>	so in case of doubt should we change to Rodent or Gnome?
Sep 02 15:22:10 <nirik>	I would prefer Rodent.. since we will know it's there. 
Sep 02 15:22:31 <cwickert>	no we don't, we dropped the deps and made it optional
Sep 02 15:22:43 <nirik>	oh, right... shoot. ;( 
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Sep 02 15:23:20 <cwickert>	we switched to Fedora because it is installed on every system and practically it cannot be removed
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Sep 02 15:24:05 <nirik>	right. 
Sep 02 15:25:24 <nirik>	ok, sorry about that... got sidetracked here. 
Sep 02 15:25:32 <nirik>	so, what do you reccomend? 
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Sep 02 15:26:10 <cwickert>	in case of doubt use gnome, but thins only affects one icon I think
Sep 02 15:26:20 <cwickert>	and I just found a replacement
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Sep 02 15:26:25 <nirik>	ah ha. cool. 
Sep 02 15:27:18 <cwickert>	ok, then with the icons fixed and the sendto patch I will build thunar
Sep 02 15:27:20 <cwickert>	next?
Sep 02 15:27:54 <nirik>	bug 450425 
Sep 02 15:28:05 <buggbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=450425 medium, low, ---, kevin@tummy.com, ASSIGNED, screen locking doesn't work (patch attached)
Sep 02 15:28:59 <nirik>	I think your patch is good there
Sep 02 15:28:59 <cwickert>	are you fine with prefering gnome-screensaver over xscreensaver if both are installed?
Sep 02 15:29:13 <nirik>	yeah, you make a good point about user switcher. 
Sep 02 15:29:55 <cwickert>	the general problem is: if gss is installed it will get started everytime by xinitrc
Sep 02 15:30:15 <cwickert>	what if someone want's to have it installed but not started?
Sep 02 15:30:42 <nirik>	well, it was/is the same way now with xscreensaver... 
Sep 02 15:31:07 <nirik>	 /etc/xdg/xfce4/xinitrc starts it if installed. 
Sep 02 15:31:24 <cwickert>	yes, so a user needs an own xinitrc
Sep 02 15:32:00 <nirik>	if they don't want to use them, but have them installed, yes. 
Sep 02 15:32:15 <nirik>	I think thats fine. 
Sep 02 15:32:23 <cwickert>	ok, I'd don't think there is mich we can do about it
Sep 02 15:32:37 <nirik>	yeah. 
Sep 02 15:33:08 <cwickert>	in a perfect worls there would be helper and a selector in preferred apps
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Sep 02 15:33:22 <cwickert>	but this would require changes deep deep down in exo
Sep 02 15:33:46 <nirik>	yep.
Sep 02 15:33:54 <nirik>	so, I say go ahead with the patch for now. 
Sep 02 15:34:26 <cwickert>	ok, and I'm pretty sure that if we apply this fix in xfce4-session it will also fix the other bugs with the screensaver msc plugin
Sep 02 15:35:10 <cwickert>	btw: there is a bug in xfce's bugzilla that suggests a helper script called xfscreensaver4
Sep 02 15:35:11 <nirik>	yeah. 
Sep 02 15:35:20 <nirik>	that picks a pref ? or ?
Sep 02 15:35:51 <cwickert>	the mcs plugin will always find this file, so mcs manager won't hang. also you can change the screensaver in the helperscript.
Sep 02 15:36:11 <cwickert>	that's not optimal, but better than hardcoded in source ;)
Sep 02 15:36:21 <nirik>	true. Easier to mod
Sep 02 15:36:28 <nirik>	for the end user. 
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Sep 02 15:37:06 <nirik>	but it would still mean modifiying a file we provide in a package, which is messy. 
Sep 02 15:37:39 <cwickert>	yeah, I don't think we should include an additional command not documented somewhere
Sep 02 15:37:57 <nirik>	right, that also would be confusing. ;( 
Sep 02 15:37:59 <cwickert>	if this is needed it should be added to xflock upstream
Sep 02 15:38:39 <nirik>	your patch just modifies xinitrc and xflock4, right? 
Sep 02 15:38:49 <cwickert>	right
Sep 02 15:38:56 <nirik>	someone who really wants could mod those themselves too... 
Sep 02 15:39:01 <nirik>	they are just scripts. 
Sep 02 15:39:31 <cwickert>	it modifies two things: 1. prefer gss 2. check for running screensaver, not installed
Sep 02 15:40:20 <nirik>	right. I think we should just go with that instead of making a xfscreensaver4... until upstream makes that kind of change. 
Sep 02 15:40:25 <nirik>	we should keep ours to min. 
Sep 02 15:40:43 <cwickert>	yes, so on to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=445986
Sep 02 15:41:04 <buggbot>	Bug 445986: low, low, ---, davidz@redhat.com, CLOSED RAWHIDE, RFE: Include a fedora logo for the Xfce panel
Sep 02 15:41:19 <nirik>	yeah, I don't see it either. ;( Shall we reopen? 
Sep 02 15:41:30 <cwickert>	+1
Sep 02 15:41:31 <nirik>	spot has taken over that package now. 
Sep 02 15:41:44 <spot>	uh oh
Sep 02 15:41:46 *	spot hides
Sep 02 15:41:48 <nirik>	:) 
Sep 02 15:42:04 <nirik>	spot: can you see why fedora-logos doesn't have our logo yet? 
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Sep 02 15:42:36 *	nirik checks cvs 
Sep 02 15:42:41 <spot>	uhhh, probably because no one has touched that package in eons?
Sep 02 15:43:26 <spot>	let me get the good liquor and i'll come fix that package in a few minutes.
Sep 02 15:43:27 <nirik>	they claimed to have... 
Sep 02 15:43:39 <cwickert>	spot: not true http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=60191
Sep 02 15:44:00 <cwickert>	spot: only a week old
Sep 02 15:44:07 <nirik>	ok, the icon is there, but missing from files? 
Sep 02 15:44:33 <spot>	i need to fix that package anyways
Sep 02 15:44:36 <nirik>	no, it should have been in the build. weird. 
Sep 02 15:44:53 <cwickert>	it's not in the rpm, nit sure if it's in cvs
Sep 02 15:44:57 <nirik>	oh, not installing it. 
Sep 02 15:45:07 <nirik>	it's in the upstream source, but it doesn't install it. 
Sep 02 15:45:20 <nirik>	anyhow, thanks spot if you can fix that up. ;) 
Sep 02 15:46:26 <nirik>	cwickert: ok, thats most of the pressing bugs... any further topics? spin? 
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Sep 02 15:46:55 <cwickert>	most of what I think is written down in the wiki in the talk page
Sep 02 15:47:05 <nirik>	yep. 
Sep 02 15:47:17 <cwickert>	and we already discussed the informal, so we don't need to do it again
Sep 02 15:47:19 <nirik>	so are there any approved spins we could use to see what a test plan they would like would be?
Sep 02 15:48:01 <cwickert>	maybe you could give some feedback and then we can talk about my suggestions later with mether
Sep 02 15:48:26 <nirik>	ok. 
Sep 02 15:48:41 <nirik>	oh, I would also say it might be nice to toss midori in, but not as default or anything. 
Sep 02 15:50:17 <nirik>	not sure on catfish... I haven't used it, or tracker in ages. 
Sep 02 15:50:59 <cwickert>	catfish is from the same guy who does midori
Sep 02 15:51:11 <nirik>	not sure about removing the splash screen... is that patch pretty stable? I saw it on the list not too long ago. 
Sep 02 15:51:18 <cwickert>	I think tracker really is to mich
Sep 02 15:51:20 <nirik>	I guess we could revert it if it causes problems. 
Sep 02 15:51:43 <cwickert>	yeah, the patch is stable, it decreases the time to login by half I'd say
Sep 02 15:51:46 <nirik>	ok, I am ok for going with catfish then... 
Sep 02 15:52:02 <nirik>	ok, like I said we can always revert if it has any issues. 
Sep 02 15:52:25 <nirik>	all the other changes seem fine to me. 
Sep 02 15:52:51 <cwickert>	ok, this is two fixes in xfce4-session: screen locking and faster startup
Sep 02 15:53:04 <nirik>	yeah.
Sep 02 15:53:26 <cwickert>	have you had time to look at xfce4_xicon1.svg
Sep 02 15:53:34 <cwickert>	dann
Sep 02 15:53:38 <cwickert>	damn...
Sep 02 15:53:57 <nirik>	? 
Sep 02 15:53:58 <cwickert>	did you look at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446981
Sep 02 15:53:59 <buggbot>	Bug 446981: low, low, ---, kevin@tummy.com, ASSIGNED, gnome-keyring-daemon not started even if "launch gnome services" is checked
Sep 02 15:54:06 <cwickert>	also affects xfce4-session
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Sep 02 15:54:16 <nirik>	yeah. thats another one. ;( 
Sep 02 15:54:36 <nirik>	yeah, we should fix that. ;( 
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Sep 02 15:54:43 <cwickert>	I did not yet try the patch
Sep 02 15:55:04 <nirik>	nor have I, but I can do so... 
Sep 02 15:55:11 <nirik>	or would you like to? 
Sep 02 15:55:22 <cwickert>	not this week I think
Sep 02 15:55:33 <nirik>	I can try. 
Sep 02 15:55:39 <cwickert>	or not before feature freeze on 9th
Sep 02 15:55:41 <cwickert>	ok
Sep 02 15:55:54 <cwickert>	are there any more topics for tonight?
Sep 02 15:56:08 <cwickert>	I suggest we discuss the rest with mether
Sep 02 15:56:08 <nirik>	and if it looks ok I can check it in... shouldn't cause any conflicts with any other session changes you might be doing... 
Sep 02 15:56:14 <nirik>	ok, sounds good to me. 
Sep 02 15:56:24 <cwickert>	I also suggest to move to a weekly schedule for the meetings
Sep 02 15:56:39 <nirik>	yes, that sounds good to me too. Bi-weekly meetings confuse me. 
Sep 02 15:56:50 <nirik>	even if we just do a quick meeting to go over open bugs. 
Sep 02 15:57:13 <cwickert>	we can do half an hour every week instead of one every two weeks
Sep 02 15:57:22 <nirik>	sure, sounds fine to me. 
Sep 02 15:58:00 <cwickert>	are you  fine with 22:00 UTC?
Sep 02 15:58:01 <nirik>	oh, as a side note, I am running Xfce on my phone now. ;) It's debian, but still... pretty cool that it can fit there ok. 
Sep 02 15:58:15 <nirik>	22 would work for me as well. 
Sep 02 15:58:33 <nirik>	I think sometimes that conflicts with packaging tho, doesn't it? let me check
Sep 02 15:58:58 <cwickert>	according to the wiki it's free
Sep 02 15:59:16 <cwickert>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel
Sep 02 15:59:20 <nirik>	ok. 
Sep 02 15:59:35 <cwickert>	ok, then
Sep 02 15:59:44 <cwickert>	btw: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/LXDE
Sep 02 15:59:58 <cwickert>	even lighter than Xfce
Sep 02 16:00:27 <nirik>	yeah, I have seen that... wonder if it's available in debian/arm
Sep 02 16:00:55 <cwickert>	I know it's in debian, not sure if there are arm packages
Sep 02 16:01:04 <nirik>	anyhow, thanks for all your work... 
Sep 02 16:01:09 <cwickert>	what phone do you have?
Sep 02 16:01:20 <nirik>	openmoko freerunner. ;) 
Sep 02 16:01:34 <cwickert>	robert had one on the FrOSCon
Sep 02 16:02:03 <cwickert>	ok, that's enough for today, really tired now and need to go to bed
Sep 02 16:02:05 ---	nirik has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule
Sep 02 16:02:11 <nirik>	thanks again. sleep well. 
Sep 02 16:02:16 <cwickert>	thanks for your time